I was waiting for a magazine for my ASG STI Duty One 1911 to show up so I could finally do this "Head to Head" Field Test Shooting Review Video for the ASG STI Duty One versus the ASG CZ 75 P-07 Duty versus the ASG Bersa BP9cc. All of which are Blowback CO2 4.5mm Steel BB pistols.
This Shooting Field Test went fairly well and all guns performed as expected, I did have one slide lock back on a loaded magazine with my ASG STI Duty One 1911 and one failure to lock back on the last shot with my ASG Bersa BP9cc, but it did eventually lock back.
During the Chronograph 5 shot per pistol test I got fairly similar fps from all three guns with the STI Duty One getting the highest of 372 average fps, the Bersa BP9cc getting runner up with 353 average fps and the CZ 75 P-07 Duty trailing the field just a bit with a 346 average fps.
During the target portion of this Field Test Shooting Review from 30 feet back in a semi rested position, again the pistols shot fairly similarly with all of them getting pretty close to 2-3 inch groupings. I did have a double shot right after my slide lock back on the STI Duty One as I pressed the trigger twice, once when the slide was locked back and again when I released it, this chambered two BB's into the barrel making the gun shoot a bit low for that double shot. With that negative one against the STI Duty One 1911, I did however find it the most pleasing to shoot! It had the best blowback action and the smoothest trigger, plus I just like holding and sighting in 1911's :)
The CZ 75 P-07 had the next hardest blowback with the Bersa BP9cc coming in second in the trigger department. All of these CO2 blowback BB pistols should get somewhere around 100+ shots pre CO2 if you take your time a bit between reloading magazines.
My last CO2 Blowback 4.5mm Steel BB Pistol Field Test Review from my latest acquisitions of New Umarex Air pistols. For many people that already liked the Umarex Makarov CO2 BB pistol, the Umarex Legends Makarov blowback version may just have everything you where looking for that was missing from version One? Well let's see... It has blowback - check! It has a working slide catch/release - check! It has a full size dropout metal magazine - check! And it's still all metal, field strip-able and has single a single action trigger!
As per usual, I tested the Umarex Makarov Ultra out shooting 5 rounds through my Chronograph with a new CO2 to find out the real world fps performance. Umarex claims 350 fps and I got pretty close to this at an average of 333 fps and I would have to say the temperature was no more than 10-15 Degrees Celsius (50-60 Fahrenheit) so there is definite room for improvement on a warmer day.
Next I stepped back 30 feet and shot 10 rounds at my paper target using a semi rested position (Standing in the back, rested on a sand bag in the front). After review of the video I noticed that the first shot was a double shot and both of these rounds hit a bit to the right compared to the remaining single shots, so my grouping ended up being more of a 2 inch group rather than a 1.5 inch group when discarding the double shot from this test.
I have to say I really like shooting the Umarex Legends Series Makarov Ultra, it has really solid blowback, a pretty decent single action trigger even if it is a bit long travel. I also found the accuracy to be very respectable from 30 feet out and the fps even though it could be a bit higher is more than enough for plinking purposes. And all of this from a really eye catching all metal licensed Makarov replica. Another nice Legends Series CO2 BB pistol from Umarex.
Today I bring to you my shooting field test for my second new Umarex Blowback 4.5mm CO2 BB Pistol and this one is part of the Legends Series, it's called the "Pistol C96" and is a variant of the Mauser C96, all though more so like the M1932 or M712 Schnellfeuer. The Umarex version is not licensed but none the less is a very good replica with lots of working parts including the blowback metal bolt, metal hammer, metal safety and adjustable metal rear sight. The single action only trigger is also metal along with the internal barrel and full size drop out metal magazine giving this otherwise all external plastic gun good overall weight of around 2 pounds.
Getting to the performance aspect of the Umarex C96 Mauser CO2 Blowback 4.5mm BB Pistol, I can say it is even more fun to shoot than admire it's beauty! I first put 5 rounds through my Chronograph hoping to get somewhere near the 380 fps claimed rating and actually exceeded it with an average of 390 fps even on this slightly cool day.
Lately I have been stepping back to my 30 foot mark even for pistol field tests and so I tested the Legends Mauser C96 with 10 rounds at 30 feet out using a semi rested position and got a very respectable 1.25 inch shot group. I did have to adjust the rear sight up a few notches to get it a centered on the target but it is very easy to do on the fly with this Replica Blowback BB pistol.
I am very impressed with the single action only trigger on the Umarex C96, it is nice and short and not too heavy with a predictable release, combine that with a very snappy fast blowback and you have yourself a very quick shooter on your hands! You can expect to get somewhere around 100 shots per CO2 and this gun is very backyard friendly as it is one of the quieter CO2 BB guns I have tested.
Yes there is a a lot of plastic on the outside but everything else is awesome about this pistol so don't let a few molecules turn you off of this little treasure...
Finally, a field test video for you and I thought I would start off with the new Umarex Beretta Mod. 84 FS CO2 Blowback 4.5mm BB Pistol. This replica BB pistol is fully licensed and is a very decent operational replica to boot. It has a full size drop out metal magazine with blowback operation, a working slide catch/release and safety along with the ability to be easily field striped. Did I mention it's pretty much an all metal gun?
So this video is mainly about the performance and overall I was very happy with how the compact Umarex Beretta Mod. 84 FS shot for me. Even on this somewhat cool day, my average fps came in just a smidgen higher than the claimed 360 fps from Umarex. I was a bit surprised at the slightly heavy single action trigger but it didn't seem to effect the accuracy at all as I got about a 1.5 inch 10 shot group from 30 feet away using a semi rested position. You can even coax out around 100 shots per CO2 if you space your shooting out a bit and let the CO2 warm up between magazines.
All in all, if you like the Beretta 92 FS styled pistols but perhaps want a more compact version with good overall fps and accuracy along with licensing and quality build. Then for sure pick your self up an Umarex Beretta Mod. 84 FS CO2 Blowback 4.5mm BB Pistol.
In this Comparison Video I go through the benefits and shortcomings of CO2, Spring Piston and Pump Airguns. I focus mainly on Airguns but there is a bit of a crossover with Airsoft guns.
All three systems (CO2, Spring, Pump) create pressure that forces the ammunition with a high force out of the barrel. Similar to how gun powder is the source of energy for a bullet.
Here are some basic statements that best describe CO2, Spring Piston and Pump Airguns.
CO2 Airguns:
CO2 Airguns use the expansion of CO2 gas to create the pressure required for the ammo.
CO2 Airguns generally store enough CO2 for multiple shots per cartridge.
CO2 Airguns have a limit as to how much power they can produce since CO2 has a set vapor pressure of 850 psi, or about 56 bar at room temperature which is around 25 C or 77 F. CO2 Gas also requires a warm environment to expand so warmer temperature and longer barrels help with power.
Some CO2 guns can also use pressurized air tanks in place of CO2.
Spring Piston Airguns:
Spring Airguns use the release of a pre-cocked spring and plunger system to compress air to power the ammo.
Spring Piston Airguns require the cocking of the spring between each shot so they are single shot only.
Spring Airguns are limited to how much effort is humanly possible to cock the spring into position. If you make the spring to strong then not everyone will be able to use the Airgun effectively. Too week of a spring and the Airgun will lack power.
Spring Piston Airguns are known for having a fair amount of recoil and vibration when the spring moves both forward and backwards quickly inside the Airgun.
Spring Airguns can use either a mechanical spring or a gas spring.
Pump Airguns:
Pump Airguns (either Single or Multi-Pump) store air pressure in a chamber that when released, powers the ammo.
Most Pump Airguns require at least 1 or more pumps, often up to 10 pumps for each shot and you generally only get one shot per set of pumps. Not to be confused with PCP Airguns (Pre Charged Pneumatic) which have large pressure tanks that are recharged with a high volume of pressurized air that is capable of shooting multiple shots per charge.
Pump Airguns are also somewhat limited to how much effort is humanly possible since the higher the chamber pressure, the harder it will be to pump the Airgun.
Misc Airguns:
Generally speaking both Spring and Multi-Pump Airguns have more potential power than a CO2 guns since CO2 has a set peek pressure limit.
Pump and CO2 Airguns are know to have very little recoil since the pressure is stored in a chamber and then released by a valve. No slapping back and forth of a large internal spring.
Pros:
CO2 Airguns:
CO2 Airguns allow for multiple shots per CO2 cartridge for more realistic action shooting.
CO2 Airguns do not require any human effort to charge the gun other than loading the CO2 and Ammo into the Airgun.
CO2 Airguns allow for true semi auto shooting ability.
Spring Piston Airguns:
Spring Airguns have the potential for high velocity since the larger and stiffer the spring, the greater the output force.
Spring Airguns do not require anything other than your ammunition, typically either a Pellet or BB.
Spring Airguns are mechanically very simple which makes them very reliable and less expensive to produce than other types of Airguns.
Pump Airguns:
Pump Airguns have the potential for high velocity since more pumps equals greater output force, only limited by the users strength and the pressure rating of the Airgun.
Pump Airguns do not require anything other than your ammunition, typically either a Pellet or BB.
Pump Airguns have next to no recoil which makes them very easy to shoot and highly accurate.
Cons:
CO2 Airguns:
CO2 Airguns require the purchase and use of CO2 or they simple do not work.
CO2 Airguns are very susceptible to temperature changes, especially cold temperature since CO2 needs a warm environment in order to expand. Cool down effect also plays a role in power output.
CO2 Airguns have a maximum set amount of power output.
Spring Piston Airguns:
Spring Airguns require the pre-cocking of the spring for each shot.
Spring Airguns can take some getting used to since the spring recoil/vibration requires a very lose grip (Military Grip) to shoot accurately with them.
Spring Airguns should not be stored pre-cocked since this can damage the spring, less so with gas spring versions.
Pump Airguns:
Pump Airguns require pre-pumping to pressurize the air chamber for each shot.
Pump Airguns, especially Multi-Pump Airguns take the most amount of human effort for each shot.
Pump Airguns need to stored with at least one pump in them or the seals can get damaged over time.
In this Comparison video I go through the benefits and shortcomings of both Blowback and Non-Blowback Airguns. I focus mainly on Airguns but there is a definite crossover with Airsoft guns.
Here are some basic statements that best describe both Blowback and Non-Blowback Airguns.
Blowback Airguns:
Blowback Airguns usually have a movable slide that moves back and forth with each shot.
Sometimes the blowback operation is internal (Internal bolt) so there may not be an external moveable slide.
Some CO2 is used to move the slide rearwards in a Blowback Airgun.
The Blowback motion of the slide with some blowback airguns can also cock the hammer or internal striker allowing for true single action trigger pull. But not always!
Some Blowback airguns have the potential for full auto capabilities since they can have a true semi auto action.
There is some noticeable recoil from the Blowback action simulating the recoil of a real gun.
Non-Blowback Airguns:
Non-Blowback Airguns can have fixed or movable slides but they will not cycle back and forth with each shot.
Non-Blowback Airguns tend to have less working parts since no Blowback valves are required or even a moveable slide.
There are some Blowback and Non-Blowback Airguns that field strip similarly to their real steel counterparts but this is most commonly found in Blowback Airguns.
Non-Blowback Airguns require the shooter to cock the hammer for single action shooting or use a double action trigger pull for semi auto like performance.
Pros:
Blowback Airguns:
Blowback Action causes a noticeable recoil which makes the airgun feel more realistic.
Blowback Airguns in some cases have true semi auto action with true single action triggers which mimic the authenticity of the real steel versions of the guns they replicate much better making them better training tools.
Having some recoil makes blowback Airguns potentially better training tools.
Blowback Airguns look really cool when shooting them and are great action prop guns.
Non-Blowback Airguns:
Non-Blowback Airguns tend to have less working parts so less to go wrong and more reliability.
Non-Blowback Airguns can be more accurate since the recoil from the blowback is not a factor.
Non-Blowback Airguns have more potential power and more shots per CO2 since no CO2 is robbed for the blowback operation.
Cons:
Blowback Airguns:
Blowback operation can rob some of the power and will also rob how many shots you get from the Airgun.
Blowback Airguns are effected even more by cold weather and the cool down effect.
The recoil from Blowback Airguns can effect accuracy for some shooters.
Non-Blowback Airguns:
Non-Blowback airguns are generally double action when shooting semi auto and so the trigger pull will be longer and heavier.
Non-Blowback Airguns do not replicate the recoil action of a real gun.
Non-Blowback Airguns do not look as cool to shoot and are not as good of an action prop gun.
Is an Airgun Good for Self Defense? Another one of those questions I get asked fairly often that's a bit hard to answer in a few sentences... Not all of us have easy access to a 9mm pistol or even a rifle but many of us can get our hands on an airgun fairly easily and they look real enough, I guess that is one thing they have going for them.
But what if the mere sight of what looks like a gun does not scare an intruder off? If you where hoping that would be enough, you may just be out of luck and what if you just brought an Airgun to a "real" gun fight? You are going to be drastically "outgunned" pun intended and here's why. A 4.5mm Steel BB weighs about 5.1 grains and generally you are looking at about 2-3 foot pounds of energy from a CO2 BB gun. Even a .177 caliber lead pellet is only marginally heavier at around 7-8 grains and if you're really lucky you might just get 4 foot pounds of energy out of a CO2 pellet pistol.
So let's take a look at a fairly conservative "real pistol" rounds, the 9mm. The 9mm rounds come in different bullet weighs but you can get a 120 grain 9mm in a plus p ammo with as much as 400 foot pounds of energy and even with that much raw power, many people claim that a 9mm round does not always have enough stopping power to put down a person even when shot multiple times center mass. It just depends what vital organs or arteries you hit that determines if he gets lucky or you get lucky.
Your 5.1 grain 4.5mm Steel BB is not going to do anything if it hits any type of clothing and even if you find some flesh it's just going to piss off the intruder.
My suggestion is to consider a bat or a golf club or a really big knife or just about anything other than an airgun because if the sight of the airgun replica does not scare an intrude away then you are really buggered.
Keep in mind that you need to abide by any laws regarding the use of self defense in your areas. Even just physical force could be considered a crime and at the end of the day you are ultimately accountable for your actions.
I finally answer the question... Which Airgun is the Best? There has to be a best airgun out there right? So let's cut to the chase and stop waisting everyones time and money buying the third Best Airgun or even the second best Airgun! Why would you even want anything other than the very best Airgun available to mankind!
I really hope you weren't one of the gullible ones that actually bought something other than the Best Airgun, well I guess you're going to have to watch my YouTube video to find out which Airgun is the Best Airgun of all time...
In many of my reviews I show the loading process of each gun but sometimes I either skim over this part or assume most people already know how to load an Air Pistol and skip it entirely. Well as it turns out not everybody does know how to load up an Airgun or they are unclear on certain areas, like do you actually need the CO2 and how long can you leave CO2 in an airgun?
So I made a video specifically to cover how to load CO2, BB's and/or Pellets into your Air Pistol.
Now even though this video is targeted at 4.5mm Steel BB and Lead Pellet Pistols, there is a crossover with 6mm Airsoft Pistols so this video may also help an Airsoft shooter.
Our Family Bearded Dragon (Dijon) was looking rather sad and lonely today so I figured he could hang out while I made the video, he really doesn't do much of anything most of the time so why not give him a special appearance in one of the Replica Airguns Videos ;)
Two questions that come up over and over again and to be honest I just hate answering, mainly because both of these questions to me are kind of common sense questions. I feel if someone where to stop and actually think about teh question, the answers would become obvious.
That said, common sense has to be learned somewhere and not all of us are exposed to the same life experiences so here goes...
The two questions are:
Will this Ammunition Work in my Gun?
Can I Convert a Blank Gun to a Real Gun?
The answer for both of these question is actually the same! Use the ammo made for your gun and do not try to use anything other than the ammo that was made for your gun. Do not try to modify your gun to shoot anything other than the ammo that was made for it, if you do, you may be breaking the law and could land yourself in jail. If you can follow these rules then your ammo and gun will work as intended :)
So that's pretty much it in a nutshell, watch my YouTube video below as I show you examples of ammo types with visuals on exactly why you need to use the ammo made for your gun. I also talk about the dangers of attempting to modify a blank gun to shoot some sort of real bullet and why it is a very bad idea in so many ways to try and convert a blank gun into a real gun.
Moving on to the head to head comparison of the Tanfoglio Gold Custom versus the Sig Sauer X-Five Sight Rail (Open version). Again like my previous video of the KWC Model M1911 Tac A1 versus the Cybergun-KWC GSG 92-M92, these two Air Pistols feature full size drop out metal magazines that hold the CO2 and 4.5mm steel BB's, along with full blowback with working slide catches, safeties and magazine releases. Both are field Strippable and both have the addition of sight rails with red dot sights for quick target acquisition.
I did not find either sight rail pistol to be all that much more accurate than similar open sight pistols like the KWC Model M1911 Tac A1 and Cybergun-KWC GSG 92-M92, but I did find that target acquisition was much quicker and even when I accidentally double tapped the trigger, the second round was right on target.
In this field test comparison I shoot both guns through my Chronograph to see what kind of feet per second performance each one shoots, I also take them back 30 feet and shoot 10 rounds on a paper target using a semi rested position for true accuracy results.
Watch my Field Test Head to Head Shootout for the Tanfoglio Gold Custom versus the Sig Sauer X-Five Sight Rail:
Both CO2 4.5mm Replica Air Pistols feature full size drop out metal magazines that hold the CO2 and 4.5mm steel BB's. These super realistic BB guns also have full blowback with working slide catches, safeties and magazine releases and they can both be field stripped juts like the real steel versions.
In this field test comparison I shoot both guns through my Chronograph to see what kind of feet per second performance each one shoots, I also take them back 30 feet and shoot 10 rounds on a paper target using a semi rested position for true accuracy results.
Watch my Field Test Head to Head Shootout for the KWC Model M1911 Tac A1 vs Cybergun-KWC GSG 92-M92:
I stopped by the ICS Booth, we don't sell too much of their products but have carried a few items from time to time. ICS caries some nice quality Airsoft guns including the M1 Grand with real wood stock, and some AK & AR variants.
One of our suppliers had the new FN Herstal Five-seveN Blowback Airsoft pistol, I believe made by Marushin. Like the real FN Herstal Five-seveN, the pistol is pretty much all polymer including the slide and frame. This pistol also uses CO2 in the full size drop out magazine which should make it fairly powerful.
Looks like there is another Dan Wesson contender available now in the form of a Swiss Arms S&W 357 Magnum 4 inch and 6 inch barreled version, they look really nice and like the Dan Wesson have the realistic reusable brass shells that hold the 4.5mm Steel BB's.
Ever considered owning a mobile Gunsmith vehicle, look no further, I came across this pimped out Firearms Van complete with machine guns mounted in the front :) Inside was a complete firearms workshop.
Last but not least, we had some fun while in Vegas. I go down for the SHOT Show for business but I also bring my wife and we make time for some non business related activities. I generally stay at the WorldMark resort each time and this year the weather was pretty nice so we where able to get some sun by the pool a couple of days and I even got a tan line! Of course the food and entertainment is always awesome in Vegas.
We carry a lot of the G&G line and perhaps have as much in stock as you would find at the G& G booth ;) I did see a few items we do not have in stock so I will have to see what I can do about that. Some products that I hope to see added to our Canada Replica Airguns Store would for sure be the M1 Grand and our Canadian Military Colt C7A1/2.
One company I took notice of was Inokatsu, they make super high quality Airsoft guns. I was drawn to their Sig Sauer P229 and 1911 pistols that by the way are made out of real steel and as close to the real version as possible without it being a real gun. The Inokatsu pistols I looked at are not cheap and will set you back over a grand but are as close as you can get to a real sidearm as possible in an Airsoft version. They feel amazing to shoot with heavy blowback and that sound real steel makes when the slide snaps back.
Let me know if you're like me and would be willing to part with a substantial amount of money for one of these treasures?
This year the Crosman booth was a bit of a let down in terms of "Replica guns" There really wasn't anything new to speak of? I didn't hang around too long to check on the non-replica guns, perhaps they have been focussing on that area of their market for this year?
One 4.5mm CO2 Blowback BB Pistol they featured as a prototype version last years was on display this year as the final product, the Crosman GI Model 1911BB. And again I was not overly impressed. The Crosman GI Model 1911BB looks for the most part like a 1911 except for the funky trigger which is supposes to look like a 1911 single action trigger. In reality it is a rather heavy double action trigger not at all true to a 1911. I was also puzzled by how recessed the barrel was, sure it's nice to have a slightly recessed barrel to make the pistol more believable but the GI Model 1911BB inner barrel is recessed at least an inch or more robbing this pistol of potential fps.
Guess I'm going to have to try one out at some point to see if it shoots better than I am giving it credit for.
One product from Crosman that is kind of a crossover between a replica and a PCP rifle is the Crosman MAR177 PCP AR Conversion Kit. It is designed to replace the top receiver for a standard AR allowing AR owners to shoot .177 caliber pellets using a standard Pre Charged Pneumatic system with their AR platforms. Of course you need an AR lower to use the Crosman MAR177 PCP AR Conversion Kit.
I also visited my friends at the ASG booth but for some reason I did not get a photo of their booth? I do have some video walk through stuff I will show you in my YouTube Video coverage of this years Vegas SHOT Show. Most importantly I have lots of gun photos so let's take a look at them...
One of my favorite ASG pistols is the Bersa BP9CC, I have already reviewed it and I just really like how this gun looks and holds, ASG took it one step further this year by adding a two-tone silver version and I have to say it looks awesome in person, my photos do not do it justice at all :(
A new handgun to the ASG blowback pistol series is the CZ P-09 Duty Pellet pistol. Basically it shares similar mechanics to the Umarex PX4 and Gamo PT-85 using the double sided rotary pellet magazine with 8 shots located on each end of the stick magazine. The ASG CZ P-09 Duty features a metal slide, working hammer and safety.
Another pellets pistol that should be very familiar to most of you is the new .177 caliber pellet shooting Dan Wesson in 6 inch silver and 8 inch black versions. ASG added a rifled barrel and redesigned solid brass shells that hold pellets instead of 4.5mm Steel BB's. Expect to take a little bit longer to reload the pellets as unscrewing the tip of each shell is required to place a .177 caliber pellet in each bullet tip.
Of course ASG has tons of licensed pistols to choose from, many on both 4.5mm Steel BB and 6mm Plastic Airsoft!
One new rifle that stood out to me was the ASG CZ Scorpion EVO 3 A1 AEG Airsoft Rifle, the Scorpion features an intelligent AEG system that detects when there may be a potential feeding problem and also when the magazine is out of ammo.
Umarex had a lot of new products this year so I thought I would start off showing you some of them. I will be following this post up with a full 2014 Vegas SHOT Show video once I finish posting some of my photos and comments on the show events.
Here is a photo of the main Umarex Booth.
I have always liked the 4.5mm BB version of the Umarex Makarov, Umarex now has the Makarov Ultra version that features blowback, a working slide catch and full size drop out magazine, looking forward to testing this one out!
Another kind of new addition to the 4.5mm Steel BB lineup is the Umarex Beretta Model 84FS. It has been available overseas but is now coming to North America. The Umarex Beretta Model 84FS also features blowback and a full size drop out magazine.
I'm not sure if we needed another rebranded version of the KWC 1911 Blowback BB pistol, but we got one anyways! Umarex now has their own version of what looks to similar to the KWC Tac A1 but with Colt licensing.
Umarex also made up a very limited edition and very weathered looking blowback BB shooting 1911 based on the KWC design called the Colt 1911 WWII Commemorative. I am not sure how many where made but I know there are not a lot of them... Hope I can get my hands on one...
Umarex came out with Smith & Wesson 327 TRR8 last year and this year they have added a similar styled 4.5mm Steel BB shooting revolver with removable shells but in a licensed Colt Python 357 version.
Last but not least and going back many years, Umarex is bringing out another Legends Series 4.5mm BB pistol. The German Mauser C96, I'm not 100% sure if it's blowback or not but it does seem to have a working action, the main pistol is made out of Polymer but it does have a full size drop out magazine and seems to have good weight overall. Most of the parts work like the original Mauser C96 including the adjustable rear sight and safeties.
Installment number 2 of my Head-to-Head Airgun comparisons. In this video I compare the replica Umarex Beretta PX4 Storm CO2 Blowback Pellet Pistol versus the Gamo PT-85 CO2 Blowback Pellet Pistol. Both are very similar mechanically and use very similar rotary magazines combined with single action hammers and very heavy blowback.
Watch the video below to see the Beretta PX4 Storm CO2 Blowback Pellet Pistol go head to head against the Gamo PT-85 CO2 Blowback Pellet Pistol in both a test of the feet per second performance and accuracy shooting at 30 feet using a semi rested position.
This post is really all about watching the YouTube video and seeing how these two similar CO2 4.5mm Steel BB revolvers compare to each other. I was working with a new Chronograph since again it was really dark outside and my old Chronograph does not like darkness. I did get some usable Chrony results with the new one but I did have to work for it ;)
